Sticky: Uncommon Sense Webcast – December 16, 2010


Add Video



***If you are having difficulty playing the show; right click on segment and ‘open link in new window.’ That way you will be able to control what you listen to and be able to go back and listen to whatever portion you like once again***

Folks write us in e-mails – AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT… …but…. …our comments section has been enabled, so please leave us your thoughts here, and don’t be bashful, we can take it!

1. Intro – The Parson’s Non-Ticket – Another Non-Ticket Story – Sarah Palin & Kate & Kate Gosselin – Storage Wars – Celebrity Rehab – Leif Garret, Eric Roberts & Janice Dickinson – Addiction Treatment Uncommon Style – Shout Out To Georges St. Pierre

2. Wanda Jackson – Why The Cleaner Hates Christmas – Sarah MacLaughlan

3. Mankind Tampering With Life – Telomeres – Synthetic Life – Amino Acids & Proteins – A Brave New World

4. A Loving German Father – Pink On Men Just Rep, Emanuel Cleaver & His Great Big Earmark – The “Gore Effect” – When You Don’t Have The Votes Cram It Down Their Throats – DADT

5. Uncommon Interview With Peter LaBarbera – Americans For Truth – Philip Yancey – Cowardly Rationalizing Christians – DADT – The Homosexual Agenda – “Soulforce” – An Interesting Willow Creek Story – Mark Kirk’s Office 202-224-3121

6. Let’s Talk About Willow Creek – The Worldview Of Willow Creek – When Christ Returns, What Is The First Thing He Does?

7. More On Willow Creek – Breaking It Down – The Church Loses – Not Teaching Prophecy – But They Sure Can Sing!

8. Putin SINGS! – The Elders – The Cleaner A Parson? – Dave The Magic Alpha Male Right Reverend Good High Elder Bishop Cracker – Okay Zora, We’re On – David Epstein, Unrepentant ‘Incestor’ – American Dude Shuts Down Mosque – Keep Your Laws Off My Booty – Yes, We Regulate The Booty – Ozzy Meets Putin

Share

9 Comments

  1. rob philgren /

    great show

  2. Looking forward to the next show – maybe we should go halves on on some BP meds? Thanks for taking some time to respond, and keep fighting the good fight…

    Joe

  3. davesteiger /

    Joe,

    Great letter, thank you!

    Obviously you’re a concerned and sensible guy, I hope we appeal to you in a similar light. If that’s the case then please listen to the next show, wherein we’ll devote (only!) one segment to what we heard from pastor MacDonald at the Moody conference. I’ll do my best not to allow my blood pressure to get the best of me, but I’m not making any promises!

    ;^)

    I appreciate that you sincerely put forth the claim that his tone has changed over recent years. If that’s the case I wouldn’t know, so I’ll defer to you on that. You’re far more knowledgeable about what’s going on under your roof than I.

    As for “Hack” Hanegraaff? He’s bad, dude, he’s pert near nuts. If Pastor MacDonald had this man speak (and he did) I’ll default to the position that he didn’t know what Hank really said when Harvest wasn’t otherwise paying attention.

    Best,

    Dave…

  4. Hey Dave,

    Appreciate the forum! Please don’t spend all of next show talking about Harvest – I enjoy the political topics much more 😉

    Just a quick response to #1: I’m not a Hank apologist – don’t claim to know the man’s intentions (barely even know who he is). Maybe he spoke on a day I wasn’t there, but did he use his pulpit at Harvest to push forth any “anti-Israel” or “Rapture-denying”? You were there, not I, so I’ll take your word for it. What I’ve seen at Harvest is unapologetic support of Israel as God’s chosen people, and, as evidenced by the last year of sermons, belief in the Rapture. If Hank was a poor choice then there are many many others that are great choices as guest speakers. Some of my favs spoke on evolution and the true history of “Palestine” – both topics would almost surely run out a first-time visitor.

    #2 – I don’t claim to know your understanding of Salvation, so I have no idea if I agree or disagree with what you believe. I’ve never heard anything that worries me while listening to your show, so I keep listening. I have a minimalist view to Salvation: acknowledge you’re a sinner, accept that Jesus is your Savior who died for your sins. That’s all Harvest has ever said as well. IMO, if you’re adding more details to that, you’re free to do so as long as it doesn’t take away from the foundation…though those details are unnecessary. If an attack of James/Harvest is due to the details, then so be it – we won’t see eye to eye, but at least we’re not looking at each other’s side as unsaved souls condemned to the firey depths. Ephesians 2:8-9 is commonly quoted at Harvest as part of the steps to living a Christ-centered life (see: http://www.harvestbible.org/10424/content/content_id/162805/How_To_Know_God). Ironically, James seems to have offended you, which in the show you said means you’re getting Biblical truth…so he’s doing something right! (I kid) That discussion would be as you pointed out: a long one probably not best suited for the comments section. My question would just be: does he back it up Biblically? If it was a mocking personal affront to you, then your beef is personal and I understand that. The last few years James has taken a more humble tone, but I could see him doing exactly as you described not so long ago. I don’t need anyone to like James as a person – and I won’t defend his methods if he was insulting – but again, is he Biblically wrong in his view of Salvation? Is James MacDonald pushing false doctrine to Harvest attendees or his listeners, thus leading them to believe they’re falsely saved? Your show lumped him in with those that do. His viewpoint on Salvation is readily accessible online…is it wrong? I have no doubt that we probably differ in some details of faith topics, but at the end of the day, the concern is whether souls are being lost because the Word is not put forth to people truthfully and unfiltered.

    I’m not out to attack anything about what you guys do or say on the show. I’m just honestly wondering if James is included in these lists as an afterthought because he has a “mega-church”, or if there’s truly some evil stuff you see him personally pushing forth…thus leading all of us that listen to him astray. I’ve never seen him advance something that wasn’t backed up in the Bible, nor has he ever attested to anything other than Biblical inerrancy. I look forward to your response or the next show (whichever comes first).

    I’d also note that I had reservations about Harvest initially for the same reason you brought up as a red flag. Yes, Sunday’s are full – but Harvest is about small group fellowship the other days of the week in order to keep that bond of accountability to fellow Christians that’s otherwise lost in the masses. To be a contributing member of Harvest, you’re expected to be part of a small group bible study to show you’re held accountable beyond the Sunday hour sermon.

    Wow that got long…sorry for the length.

  5. davesteiger /

    Joe,

    Thanks for writing! I’ll be honest with you – but will dig deeper when I (we) have more time – yes, I do have a number of issues with Harvest. I believe John will concur.

    Not that this, in and of itself, is an issue, but here’s one example:

    On one occassion I visited Harvest while Hank Hannegraaf was speaking. Please understand, I believe Hank to be one of the most arrogant and misinformed Christians alive at the moment, so this rather stunned me. Why would Pastor MacDonald have him speak? (I would speak with him, sure, but only in an effort to correct his false, and blasphemous, doctrines, never would I allow him to speak in my assembly.)

    This is a man who denies the Rapture (he categorizes you as being a member of a cult if you believe in the Rapture, Joe), who denies any future purpose for Israel, and so many other critical doctrines that I do not have time to speak of them. The ‘Bible Answer Man’ is in need of many answers, in my humble opinion.

    Secondly – and this you would never have heard if you do not attend the annual Moody pastors’ conferences – he belittled the concept of Eternal Security via Salvation by Grace through faith. It was not only like a stake through the heart, it was a long, thick stake, with a hard twist at the end for good measure.

    I believe we have this clip available for listening, and if John is willing we’ll play it on the next show. It was on the Moody website for a long time, in other words, it was public, so it’s not a violation of anything insofar as I am aware if we repay it. If we play it you may find it a very difficult listen.

    Basically, his ridicule (it was neither stern rebuke nor edification via instruction, but genuine ridicule) on my understanding of Salvation was outrageous. He laughed at me, personally, in that lecture, and others who believe as I do (which is every one at Grace Fellowship, for that matter). Furthermore, he also enticed the crowd to laugh right along with him via some very catchy showmanship, and I found it (and I apologize for the harsh adjective) to be disgusting.

    There are many other things we could speak about, but I don’t know that they’d be fruitful at the moment. Perhaps dealing with these issues should serve as a start.

    One thing, and I do mean this sincerely, is that I thank God every time I drive down 53 and see that black light Cross shining in the darkness. That’s a beautiful thing, Joe.

    Blessings, not curses,

    Dave (Cleaner)…

  6. First comment attempt must have got lost in transmission, so I’ll give it another go…I’ve enjoyed listening to your show the last couple months Fridays at work, but this week I felt it necessary to set a couple things straight from your comments in the Willow Creek segment. I’ve attended Harvest for 10+ years and don’t feel lumping it in with Willow Creek, Saddleback, Lakewood, etc is justified. Specifically, you mention three things that these churches don’t do. Preach Biblical prophecy – Harvest does this. Over the last year not only has James MacDonald routinely brought up this subject in sermons, but we’ve had speakers come in to dedicate entire sermons on that subject, along with the importance of standing firm with Israel (the two go hand in hand). Second, you mention they glaze over the hard stuff in the Bible in order to stay seeker-friendly. We just ended nine full months going word for word through Revelation which was definately not a seeker friendly subject matter. A few weeks ago James spoke on his personal choice of abstaining from alcohol and how labeling alcoholism as a disease is just enables society to treat it as acceptable substance abuse…that topic probably rubbed people the wrong way. Finally, you said these places probably go through entire services without so much as opening a Bible. Not one service in 10 plus years have I sat in and not opened my Bible within two minutes of when James starts preaching.

    Sadly, the only thing I see these “mega churches” having in common is numbers of attendees. I guess I understand how you see that as a red flag, but Harvest has held true to its founding principles of spreading the truth of the Word. There are plenty of Christians that see a challenging subject as a way to grow in their faith, and in my opinion, that’s how Harvest thrives. There is only one way to salvation, and that’s through Jesus Christ – I’m sorry if you’ve been taught differently. I’m sure there are many things you can find wrong with Harvest – after all it’s not a “Grace” church, so I’m sure there are plenty of things you disagree with. Not knowing what all your “denomination” holds true, I’ll refrain from lumping it in with others and assuming you preach false doctrine. There is plenty of media out there with James MacDonald’s stances (Harvest website, Walk in the Word, books he’s written, etc) – I’d be interested to know if you have any specific examples of where he twists or preaches false doctrine like these other churches.

  7. See this article, http://tinyurl.com/33ku6tw, which explains the connection between Jim Wallis, who is Obama’s spiritual advisor, and Willow Creek. Wallis is the founder of Sojourners Magazine, to which Lynne Hybels (Bill Hybels’ wife) regularly contributes. Not only that, but Willow Creek invited the Political Director of Sojourners to teach a Willow Creek class on Political Advocacy, laced with leftism, last spring (see: http://tinyurl.com/2whax7n). Also, Sojourners’ receives a portion of its considerable funding from leftist billionaire George Soros’ Open Society Institute.

  8. Psalm 144:1: Blessed be the LORD my Rock,
    Who trains my hands for war,
    And my fingers for battle—

  9. Bill Hybels did say he supported the the military earlier in his message – believe it or not, even though his “war is insane” comment contradicts that.

    Thanks for covering this.

    Here’s an article Bill and I wrote on the subject earlier this week:
    http://christianconservativeresistance.blogspot.com/2010/12/willow-creek-substitutes-leftism-for.html.

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *